Here we go again....

I posted this really for the benefit of those who don't have facebook (ahem, Eric). This was a discussion on some new presidential candidates facebook site or something...I'm not sure...

Anyway, there was posting and the guy said, "Give me one LOGICAL reason to believe that God exists." I did give him a LOGICAL reason...he still doesn't believe it. Too bad. This was the discussion from when I chimed in until I left...I won't be going back. It's pointless and I have better things to do than to argue the existence of God. We exist, we have moral law, we love, etc...where did we learn that from? Hmm...we are inheritently BAD, SELFISH, UNLOVING, INDIVIDUALIST, etc.

God exists. Enough said.

And take notice how NOT ONE PERSON (except for the one who was just being flat out sarcastic) ever attempted to answer my questions...from the questions I posed from wayofthemaster.com and my question about the overwhemling evidence that made them believe in evolution...

Like I said, evolutionists always challenge Christians to prove God's existence. But when we ask questions they don't even attempt to answer!

How can I ever take them seriously?!?

Post #4767
4 repliesYou wrote
about an hour ago
I had to reply to this...I know that God exists because when I see a tree, I know someone designed and made it, it didn't just "bang" into existance.

It seems as those who believe evolution to be fact, often challenge Christians to prove the existence of God...So, evolutionists, I challenge you. If you could answer the following questions to my satisfaction, I'd change my mind and believe in evolution.

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

2. Where did matter come from?

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live?

14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?

15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)? b) The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce? c) The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs? d) DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts? e) The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose? f) The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants? g) The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones? h) The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system? i) The immune system or the need for it?

(Questions come from www.wayofthemaster.com)

Good luck.
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Post #4768
2 repliesMookie K (Washington, DC) replied to your post
59 minutes ago
the galaxy is actually a tiny cell in a gigantic organism. thats all the explanation you need.Reply to Mookie
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Post #4769Jen Osbourne replied to Mookie's post
58 minutes ago
*sings*

Here come the Men in Black!
They won't let you remember! ...Reply to Jen
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Post #4770
2 repliesAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Justin's post
58 minutes ago
no one thanks god for destroying their house. no one thanks anyone for destroying their house (unless theyre committing insurance fraud) just because no one credits him doesnt mean he wasnt invovled. he let it happen. he cant get involved in everything, or we wouldnt have any choices


Post #4771
2 repliesJustin Dean (Texas State) replied to your post
56 minutes ago
just because we dont know the answer doesnt mean we should automatically assume a higher being exists. 5000 years ago they credited the wind blowing to god, or whether or not it rained to god.

"Look, lightning!"
"Yes, Zeus is angry!"Reply to Justin
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Post #4772Mookie K (Washington, DC) replied to Austin's post
55 minutes ago
so when something is "explainable" it isnt god but when something is otherwise "unexplainable" we have devine intervention. you have to see the convenience of all this.Reply to Mookie
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Post #4773Austin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to your post
55 minutes ago
oh, great. just great. an exclusionist. creation and evolution are not mutually exclusive.Reply to Austin
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Post #4774Mookie K (Washington, DC) replied to Justin's post
54 minutes ago
the greeks credited every single gift of nature to a different godReply to Mookie
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Post #4775
1 replyAnne McCandless (Burlington, VT) replied to Chelsea's post
53 minutes ago
God dammit, people wanted to talk to meReply to Anne
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Post #4776
2 repliesYou replied to Mookie's post
53 minutes ago
What is your proof? I've not found scientific writings that say, "We know that..." They always read: "We think that..." "It might be..." Hmm...no concrete proof and uncertainty from the very people that support that theory...doesn't look good for them. Just remember, you mate monkeys with monkeys and you get monkeys (variations of them, yes...but nevertheless they are still monkeys)!Reply to Your Post
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Post #4777
1 replyJustin Dean (Texas State) replied to Austin's post
52 minutes ago
so he can only get involved if you ask him to every sunday, and before you go to bed, and before you eat, and before you play a game?

another thing that makes me laugh is when someone is kept on life support, people bitch that we are "playing god." i would take that as a huge compliment, "i am as strong as a supernatural being, haha!" how do those people know that god wants that person to die? maybe being kept alive via a machine is the plan. same goes for abortion and euthanasia; maybe the woman was supposed to have an abortion, or the old person was supposed to die. Reply to Justin
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Post #4778
1 replyMookie K (Washington, DC) replied to your post
51 minutes ago
wheres my proof? are you kidding? where is your proof of the existence of a god? and i wont accept "when i look at a tree, i know it is gods doing" because that is not fact.Reply to Mookie
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Post #4779Justin Dean (Texas State) replied to your post
51 minutes ago
sorry that during a 10 year experiment we cant scientifically test billions of years of mating.


oh but thats right, the earth is only 6000 years old. silly meReply to Justin
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Post #4780
2 repliesYou replied to Mookie's post
50 minutes ago
My dear, I already told you. I see a tree, I know someone created it. Look at your eye. Come on! How complex is the eye?!? Do you think that your eye just evolved?!? Reply to Your Post
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Post #4781
1 replyMookie K (Washington, DC) replied to your post
49 minutes ago
your mind is beyond repair. i pity you, and if i believed in a higher being, i would pray for you.


but really, where is your proof? you can say "I know someone created it." until youre blue in the face. it has no meaning if you have no FACT to back it up.Reply to Mookie
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Post #4782Joseph Medina (Carroll High School) wrote
49 minutes ago
video gamesReply to Joseph
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Post #4783
1 replyChelsea Pontious (Grand Canyon) replied to Anne's post
48 minutes ago
How dare they!Reply to Chelsea
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Post #4784
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Justin's post
47 minutes ago
i cant believe this. youre still stereotyping me. never mind. theyre fair assumptions. too many christians arent like me.

sometimes even when i ask him to he doesnt get invovled. that doesnt make him less.

maybe life support was part of the plan. all i can say is that you dont blindside god with a sucker punch by deciding to life support someone. i equate abortion to murder, (not that its the governments job to tell us whether or not we can, or my place to tell you what to believe) but maybe you aborted the next hitler. the thing is, youll never know. but He does.Reply to Austin
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Post #4785Justin Dean (Texas State) replied to your post
46 minutes ago
no, i know that Odin forged it from the flames of the earth.

if you insist on worshiping a god, he is the only acceptable choiceReply to Justin
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Post #4786
1 replyYou replied to Mookie's post
45 minutes ago
Here is some more proof for you. At least I can back my claims up with evidence (even if you don't believe the Bible). Funny how the Word of God revealed "scientific truths" long before they were "discovered." If you're still not convinced, just let me know...I can tell you more...

Oh yeah, you still haven't answered my questions. :)

Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: “In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter]...And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters.” The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Scripture tells us in Hebrews 11:3 that the “things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

It is also interesting to note that scientists now understand the universe is expanding or stretching out. Nine times in Scripture we are told that God stretches out the heavens like a curtain (e.g., Psalm 104:2).

At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: “He . . . hangs the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7). Reply to Your Post
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Post #4787
1 replyAnne McCandless (Burlington, VT) replied to Chelsea's post
44 minutes ago
I know, seriously, I am SO anti-social at work.

anyway - I'm outta here!

GO RED SOX GO PATS!

chelsea, I may be up later tonight - catch you then if I am

Have a good day - don't forget to go to church and pray for my heathen soul
♥Reply to Anne
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Post #4788Chelsea Pontious (Grand Canyon) replied to Anne's post
43 minutes ago
Haha, like I would go to CHURCH!

Have a good rest of the day! Kick Ian for me.

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Post #4789
1 replyJustin Dean (Texas State) replied to Austin's post
42 minutes ago
but if some of your prayers get answered and some dont, then obviously there is a variable in there that changes. its a cop-out to say "sometimes god answers and sometimes he doesnt" because as i said awhile back, i could pray to a beer bottle and get those same results.

and i wasnt stereotyping you, i dont know what you specifically believe so im using examples of things ive seen from christians in general. as we have seen, everyone interprets the "one true word of god" differently.....(lapse in logic?)Reply to Justin
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Post #4790You replied to Justin's post
40 minutes ago
but here's the problem:

You don't know. What was the overwhelming evidence that made you believe in evolution?

For me, I look at the intricities of the world and I know there has to be a higher power. Reply to Your Post
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Post #4791
2 repliesAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Justin's post
40 minutes ago
i dont know what you specifically believe so im using examples of things ive seen from christians in general.

i.e. stereotyping.

as for the beer bottle, maybe you could. that has more to do with gods plan than anything we say to him. all we can do is ask.Reply to Austin
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Post #4792
2 repliesNate Fuller (UMass) replied to your post
40 minutes ago
1. Where did the space for the universe come from?
science, not some dude in the sky

2. Where did matter come from?
science, not some dude in the sky

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
Why Sir Isaac Newton, duh!

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?
who said anything about perfection?

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
its actaully this physical forec called...wait for it..."energy"...its a physics phenomenon.

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?
like a Catholic in a Mosque I dont understand the question and refuse to acknoledge its existense

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
ITs called the Darwin Theory of Evolution, its based on the need to survive

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
It was probably an Amobea that reproduced asexually, meaning that it split part of itslef off to create another Amobea. Sounds similar to a story in the bible involving a rib...


9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)
It was necessary before humans came in and fucked everything up. If God loved everytinhg so much, would he let us ruin his planet and his animals? hell no

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
Like a Catholic in a gay bar...I dont understand the question and I refuse to acknowledge its existence

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?
probably not, it proves Darwin right though. Just look a the Galapagos, why would God leave variations of his creations on an island chain in the pacific and no where else? And why are these creatures variation specifically related to survival techniques on the Galapagos?

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?
Because complex genetic code is availabe, in smaller numbers at first. as we live on and those with certain complex genetic codes have something more useful to their survival and reproduce. these better survival mechanisms make certain mates more attractive so they get laid more, yada yada yada Galapagos.

13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live?
asking for specifics is retarded, i could ask you about when God created man and you couldnt tell me either...unless you believe every word the bible says, and in that case, no.

14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?
a. I believe Whales are decendants of ancient egyptians other than that, i have no idea.

15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)? b) The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce? c) The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs? d) DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts? e) The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose? f) The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants? g) The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones? h) The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system? i) The immune system or the need for it?
I notice these questions become more loaded and more ridiculous to answer as i go down
(Questions come from www.wayofthemaster.com)
ah that explains a lotReply to Nate
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Post #4793Austin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Nate's post
36 minutes ago
please forget the questions entirely. they do not serve an academic or inteletual purpose. those questions are just a filibuster.Reply to Austin
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Post #4794
2 repliesJustin Dean (Texas State) replied to your post
35 minutes ago
lol this is absurd. first it seems painfully obvious you're copy and pasting those from some ego-maniacal christian website, leaving no room for independent thought, but doesnt seem like you have much anyway though :/

the whole "science expresses the universe in 5 terms" thing isnt even a point. thats just taking words and assuming they refer to something else.

next, "only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms?" it hasnt been discoverd in "recent" years. in fact the theory of the atom goes back to the ancient greeks (predating the bible)

and a universe expanding is not the same thing as a "curtain" unless you know of a curtain that is ever-expanding

and saying "oh look the bible spoke against some ancient idea that the earth sat on a giant animal" doesnt really say anything about the bible. thats not a hard theory to argue against


go to school more Reply to Justin
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Post #4795
1 replyNate Fuller (UMass) replied to Austin's post
35 minutes ago
were you guys home schooled? seriosuly, its important question to determine your validityReply to Nate
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Post #4796Jenn Niles (Lyndon State) wrote
34 minutes ago
Personally, I too happen to think that leaving things to "divine intervention" is nothing more than a silly cop-out. Religion in and of itself, is no more than a steadfast belief in something; beliefs which have [somehow] managed to survive thousands of years.

I find it funny that there's all these different variations of God... the Hindu God, The Christian God, the multiple gods in polytheism. How do we know which religion is "right"? The thing is, we don't. Religion isn't about being right or wrong, but what you believe. Therefore, having religion and believing in a god is just all in our heads. We "believe" simply because we're told to.

Those of us actually intelligent enough to think for ourselves know the difference between fact and fiction.Reply to Jenn
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Post #4797
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Justin's post
33 minutes ago
lol, justin, we agree on something. Reply to Austin
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Post #4798
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Nate's post
32 minutes ago
no, i was not homeschooled. why do you ask?Reply to Austin
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Post #4799
3 repliesYou replied to Nate's post
32 minutes ago
I notice these questions become more loaded and more ridiculous to answer as i go down


That's exactly the point. That's because evolution is a ridiculous theory that even some scientists say it's an embarrassment to the field. (I really wish I could remember the the names of the scientists...but I can't off the top of my head...perhaps I can find it for you...I do wish to provide you with evidence everytime I make a statement as to not to be accused of being brainwashed or something to that effect...)Reply to Your Post
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Post #4800
1 replyJustin Dean (Texas State) replied to Austin's post
31 minutes ago
not maybe. i definitely could. my beer bottle always answers with a "yes" "no" or "wait." and i get the same ratio of those answers as i do if i prayed to god instead



the point of that analogy was to show that things still work WITHOUT crediting god.



Post #4801Justin Dean (Texas State) replied to Austin's post
27 minutes ago
i dont consider religious debate to be a bad thing, as long as it is intelligent lolReply to Justin
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Post #4802
1 replyNate Fuller (UMass) replied to Austin's post
27 minutes ago
because homeschooled people are crazy, and can have their brain corupted by their over protective religous zealot parents. not saying it always is the case with homeschoolers it just can beReply to Nate
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Post #4803Justin Dean (Texas State) replied to Nate's post
26 minutes ago
my roommate was like that. then he discovered alcoholReply to Justin
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Post #4804
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to your post
25 minutes ago
and i have a book full of top christian scientists that say evolution is a fact and creation is a fact and that they go hand in hand. frankly, saying evolution is bogus is a waste of time until something spawns. its like saying gravity isnt a fact because soething theoretically could defy it. i believe you have been brainwashed. right now, only knee-jerk opposition and people out to make their careers dont believe in evolution.Reply to Austin
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Post #4805
1 replyNate Fuller (UMass) replied to your post
24 minutes ago
"I notice these questions become more loaded and more ridiculous to answer as i go down


That's exactly the point. That's because evolution is a ridiculous theory that even some scientists say it's an embarrassment to the field. (I really wish I could remember the the names of the scientists...but I can't off the top of my head...perhaps I can find it for you...I do wish to provide you with evidence everytime I make a statement as to not to be accused of being brainwashed or something to that effect...)"

actually because no one knows the who what when where and why of evolution. Darwin wasnt chillin on the beach, watched to sparrows bone and followed the mother home, watche the egg hatch...you should get the ideaReply to Nate
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Post #4806
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Justin's post
23 minutes ago
sure, things happen with or without god. but since i already believe fully that he exists, loves me and listens to me, why the hell cant i thank him for what happens, especialy if i asked him to do it.Reply to Austin
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Post #4807
1 replyYou replied to Justin's post
23 minutes ago
Oops, I'm sorry, I forgot to put the site down. Yes, I'm copying and pasting from a book on wayofthemaster.com only because I have done the reading myself in the Bible and I am writing lesson plans. It's just less time consuming...So sorry to include my source...bad, bad, bad history major!

I was never homeschooled. I didn't have a Christian background growing up. I was an atheist and practiced witchcraft for most of my life.

I've been though college and graduate school...I have 3 degrees and working on a 4th...I'd love to go to school more after I'm done with the 4th...are you offering to pay my tuition?

and no my brain is not "beyond repair."

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Post #4808
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Nate's post
21 minutes ago
Darwin went to the Galapagos. he discovered 17 different looking birds, and gathered samples, assuming he had found 17 species, only to find out they were all finches. all 99.9% genetically identical. but when the island had run out of one resource, the ones who could eat something else kept living.Reply to Austin
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Post #4809Jeremy Prudden (MO Western) replied to Austin's post
18 minutes ago
God does exist. However, I believe they are two factors playing in our world....one is God and the other is Life. God trumps over Life whenever he pleases...but I get annoyed with these people who want to say everything bad God "allowed" it to happen and everything good God did it. I believe God works miracles, no doubt. But, I also believed when He created the world, he then stepped back and let nature take its course. He only intervenes when asked to or when needed.Reply to Jeremy
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Post #4810
2 repliesNate Fuller (UMass) replied to your post
16 minutes ago
right dude, the Bible has the answers, I totally forgot. Reply to Nate
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Post #4811
1 replyAustin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Nate's post
14 minutes ago
the bible has every answer you need. you just want a higher standard of proof before you accept its authority, don't you?Reply to Austin
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Post #4812You replied to Nate's post
12 minutes ago
absolutely.

And since I'm 13 hours ahead of you...I'm out. It's been fun. Here's some reading material for you:

http://evolution-facts.org/EncyclopediaTOC.htm

Have a good day. It was a great one for me.

Peace in y'all.Reply to Your Post
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Post #4813
1 replyNate Fuller (UMass) replied to Austin's post
9 minutes ago
authority, no, but validity, yes. its a collection of folk tales teaching morals until hard science backs it up. I know its a tough standard, but for something to live life byReply to Nate
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Post #4814Austin James Kelley (UCSC) replied to Nate's post
7 minutes ago
hard science like what? like gods toenail? or like some parts of it being able to be proved?Reply to Austin
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Post #4815Dom Pafundi (Rochester) replied to Pavel's post
7 minutes ago
Just playin'. The usual argument is "if you found a camera in a field, wouldn't you wonder who designed it?" Guess it wasn't as funny as I thought it would be... although I like your syllogism and plan to use it because the line "therefore cameras occur in nature" is fuckin' hilarious.Reply to Dom
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Post #4816
1 replyJustin Dean (Texas State) replied to Austin's post
6 minutes ago
you can. but based on that reasoning, i should be fine in staying with my beer bottle. i believe it exists, it loves me and listens to me. and sometimes when i ask it for things, i get them.

if there is a god, he should understand this logic and not punish me for it. and if he still gets mad at me, well screw him because his system sucksReply to Justin
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Post #4817Jenn Niles (Lyndon State) replied to your post
5 minutes ago
These scientists who think evolution is an "embarrassment" to the field... I'd like to see them to come up with a better alternative.

Oh, that's right: they can't. Therefore they just attribute everything to "God".Reply to Jenn
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Post #4818Zach Scheinerman (Conn College) replied to Austin's post
3 minutes ago
In fairness, Austin, gravity isn't always true. Go into space and there is no gravity. However, the theory of gravity accounts for that by saying that you have to be close enough to a large body to be affected by its gravitational force.
That's one of the things about science, is that something is only true until its (almost inevitably) proved wrong. Not saying that religion is any better, but just thought I'd point that out.